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This month, President Donald Trump has threatened to ban the Chinese-owned platforms TickTock and WeChat. This comes after years of China banning major US platforms like Google and Facebook, and securing the purchase of Uber’s Chinese business by a Chinese company. Chinese tech activists Katt Gu and Suji Yan speak with us about how this conflict looks from where they live in Shanghai, and they describe some of the firewalls they’re building to help protect labor and privacy rights. As the US—long used to being on the offensive in the Internet economy—moves to the defensive, our guests will help us think through what kinds of sovereignty online might be worth having.